Hmong rally for Vang Pao

By Darly • June 20, 2007

Video description: Members of the Hmong community congregate at Courthouse Park to show support for their leader, General Vang Pao.

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Darly

20 Responses to “ Hmong rally for Vang Pao ”

Sim Jun 21st, 2007 at 10:14 am

His people are very loyal to him much
like Hirohito is for Japan. Hirohito
wasn't dethroned, and not charged with war crimes because of his
symbolic, God-like effect on the population. Hirohito then showed that can lead
the nation into a positive democratic nation. Vong Pao may be still be a
positive person with some useful leadership if he is given the right role to play.

His people would have been much more
proud and more supportive of Vang Pao if his plans were a positive one. They
want peace and that is a great message. This is an amazing show of loyalty from
the people with peace at their hearts. It's unfortunate that Vong Pao did not show that same commitment.

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Ginger Jun 22nd, 2007 at 6:35 am

I think it’s wrong to blindly support someone, knowing full well what had happened, even if not proven guilty, but we all, Hmong, and Low Land Laotian knew what’d happen if he wasn’t stopped; to show support of him as a leader is okay, but to show support of what he did was not okay, asking for him to be set free by what he did in the past is a bit much; I thought he wanted to help the American because he felt it was the right thing to do at the time. I like the speaker, she represents her people well, but her message is like the chicken and egg syndrome.

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who Jun 24th, 2007 at 5:52 am

Question. what does hmong and laotian have in common?give up… they both are Lao-sy people. Both hurt their own kind.. The commie laotian doesn't realized that the elder Hmong's mind set is Laotian. No matter what the Hmong think they still part of Lao. Both are no different. both don't realize this, both are Lao-sy people. The only winner is outsiders who invest million of dollars on Lao economy. These people will control Laos. Love each other and open the door to equal right for everyone. Unite Laos be stronger, divide everybody suffer.

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karmadiva Jun 25th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

There's a quote that fits this situation, which is something along this line, "Truth is the first casualty of war!" We can assume that we know what the truth is but in this situation do we really know?

Unless we are there ourselves and experience and see the event ourselves then we can't really say we know what the truth is. From what I know of General Pao through the media, history etc, he is interested in helping the Hmong in Laos— that has always been his passion. He did try to approach the UN about the suffering of the Hmong in Laos, but no response. I don't condone his method of using violence to achieve his goal but maybe he just got fed up with being ignored.

Life is not always black and white, that would be too easy. "I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation.

We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. " Elie Wiesel, Holocaust survivor made this comment. Maybe General Pao felt he can longer remain silent in the face of the Hmong suffering and was willing to do whatever it takes to end it.

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Ginger Jun 26th, 2007 at 9:13 am

We can debate about this topic until the end of times, at the end, our point of view is always correct. You are right that we don’t know the truth, maybe the general also doesn’t know the truth, in the back of my mind, I keep thinking that he is being used as a scapegoat, there might be a whole new story that we don’t know and might never know. I’m Laotian, and from Laos, not different from the general, the only difference is that I didn’t have the past like him, huge title to go with my name, but that doesn’t make me any less of a Laotian person as him, what’s different is that I’m willing to move on and not drilling on the past. This is from my perspective and point of view and I believe many young Laotians share my view. The world is not black and white, and yes there is no black and white solution, but every problem has a solution, is just that, can you live with the solution in front of you, obviously the general can’t.

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karmadiva Jun 26th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

Ginger, it's funny that you say that there's a solution to every problem because I firmly believe that and always remind people. As a history teacher I always tell my students, we can never forget the past because there's an important lesson there. In this case, I believe that to be true. We should never live in the past, but we should use the lesson learned from it to not make the same mistakes. You are right we as an individual we must decide if we can live with the situation and if we can't accept it we have a right to do something about it because we all have free will. General Pao obviously felt he can't live with the solution and is willing to take actions to change it. I'm sure he was aware of the consequences. The bottom line is I firmly believe we should always stand up for our beliefs because it defines who we are as a person or race, but I don't agree with using any violent means to do it. I believe in nonviolent demonstration and civil disobedience like Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

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Ginger Jun 27th, 2007 at 7:15 am

Hi Karmadiva, after I made that comment, I read some articles written by the Hmong, and comments made by both Lao, and Hmong yesterday, and it’s a bit shocking for me to learn that it’s not just about helping his people, it’s also about revenge, they want the Lao people to pay for their suffering, they called it genocide. I don’t really know how to respond to this, and if by chance express, my opinion only would create further rage and hatred. I think they are so narrow-minded to take certain groups action, and judge the whole nation as the same, even the innocent children. I can’t say that I find the general action to be kind hearted, people with a true kind heart will be able to look beyond physical appearance, and be able to let go of the past, there’s so much that he could have done to help his people with the money that he has or had, but it’s too late now. I don’t know the history of Laos, but I always thought that the Hmong like to live on highland such as mountains and foothills, that’s what I remember as a kid, and also from reading several Thai novels, but from reading the comments, they’re blaming the Lao for their living conditions that they claimed was not fair. Then the news came out that the coup deal was a fantasy, that didn’t do him any justice; obviously it didn’t make the general to look any better because it takes guts to stand up for your belief, and I can’t say that I do that most of the time, they shouldn’t have taken his pride away from him, pride is all he has right now.

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karmadiva Jun 28th, 2007 at 1:16 am

Ginger, this vids from youtube has a lot of information and points of view on the situation of the Hmong in Laos,but the one I wanted to post, the embedding from youtube has been disabled. It is an investigative report a BBC female journalist and filmmaker Rahi Hami went into the jungle of Laos in 2002 get to find evidence of the mistreatment and genocide of Laos. She stresses that the Hmong she met in the jungle was not trying to rebel against the communist Pathet Lao, but was trying to protect their women and children from the Lao soldiers. Yes, in the early seventies the Hmong did fight a secret war with the help of the U.S. against the communist Pathet Lao because the U.S. had promise them asylum and protection from the regime. After the secret war, many Hmong was left in Laos to defend themselves against the Pathet Lao government, who may not have forgiven or forgotten the Hmong's role in the conflict with the government. The U.N. needs to send in some international observers into Laos when the Hmong surrenders to the Lao government to ensure the safety of the Hmongs. This will also benefit the Lao government because this will prove to the international community that they have nothing to hide. Actions speak louder than words!

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DJ Jun 28th, 2007 at 6:27 am

Hi Karmadiva,

Please post the link to the video since we can't embed a video in a comment.

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Ginger Jun 28th, 2007 at 11:59 am

Hi Karmadiva, I saw the video that you're talking about and I posted one similar to it.

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joy Jul 6th, 2007 at 3:55 pm

Thank you Ms. or Mr. Karmadiva for your good words, it shows that there are people out there who understands the sitiuation we are facing right now..i'm only here to leave a positive comment and want everyone to remember that we are all label as the same thing "southeast asian." we will carry this name as long as we live and this is the time that we should come together and help each other.

No matter who or what race you are I think that if you are from southeast asia then this situation should affect you. We are here, in the U.S. today because we hate war, and we dislike communism, general vang pao was one of the leaders who took the burden to bring his people, not only the Hmongs but Mien, Laotians, and many highlanders of Laos to a better life.

For the revenge part, there could be some, I cant' guaranteed that there was none, but you have to realize that Vang Pao is like the father of the Hmong, and as a parent, you can't just sit around and watch others bully or torture your kids..there are be some bias and rumors out there, but there are so many facts too. I am just a normal student like any one and I am scared, worried, and confused about what's really going to happen if the case comes out guilty..all i want and what most of us want is really fighting for is just to give us justice in this case.

If you really look closely at this case, you can see that right now history is repeating itself. And yes everyone's telling us to forget the past, but your past is exactly who you are, if you ignore your past, are you ignoring yourself..your history..your ancestors? It's only been 30 years, and I believe that general vang pao is not "planning" he is "waitng"…waiting for a solution to the problem..

i know i have my own perspective and i know that you all have yours, but we are all human, and this is my fight for human right and so is yours..the whole buying guns and trying to take over Laos thing..I don't think it could've went that far..the secret agent must've add his own ideas..b/c in his report, he clearly states that he had left some information out..

so finally, I am happy for one thing, that the word of the Hmong are finally out! We've been so quiet, so uneducated, and now we are rising out into the public, with our doctors and communty activist giviing their speeches, and many american veterans from the secret war are finally wording out how they feel about the situation and I've read tons of these little chat rooms..though some r very negative..and i feel that we are making change, for the first time, we are actually becoming a part of history…i respect all of your opinions so please respect mines too..i would love to hear some replies..^_^

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Ginger Jul 9th, 2007 at 7:08 am

Hi Joy, remembering the past and knowing who we are is not the same as living in the past. When we are living in the past, we’d only replay those episodes of what had happened, and I’m not denying that solution might not come out from doing this, but in most cases it’d bring about anger, an eye for an eye, tooth for tooth and sadly I’ve seen this many comments made by the Hmong; is it wrong for them to think this way? No because that’s their point of view, and I think that everyone have the right to think what they want, this is a free country, and I have the right to think what I want, that they are wrong, I think we should let go of the past and it’s time to move one, the general seemed to have the same message, but that’s only to make him look good, but NOT and NEVER from his heart, I hate people that wear mask.

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hurt Jul 11th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

I'm guessing that you are still young and wont blame you for not trying to understand. I have to agree with the History teacher that if we dont walk their shoes, we will never understand. I for one is one of those who have struggle to escape from proscution. My family was capture and escape. During our journey, we see many hmong and lao (mostly Hmong) people die on the side of the road half eaten by animal. Baby have been drug so they wont be able to cry otherwise the enemy will here, die of over dose. I was young at the time but things like that etch in your mind forever.

I for one have move on like you said and is willing to assimulate like everyone else because I am safe, protected and have the opportunity to be the best I can be. But imagine if one of those girl was rape and mutilated was one of your cousin or your sister. Imagine that the boy who's stomache was cut open with guts hanging out while he is still talking, not knowing how much longer he is going to live is someone who is close to you…and if you have even just a slight chance of helping this people, by whatever mean, will you have done the same thing.

We dont know how many attempt General Vang Pao have try to make peace with the communist laos. How many time he try to ask the American government for help. Maybe this is his last cry out for help.

There is no way that he had 9.8 million dollars store somewhere. The government will know about it. In addition, just say he have it, why would he buy arm here in the U.S. when he can easily buy it in other country. He had many friends and ally in other country. He didnt have to do this here.

My last work is, put yourself in other's shoes before we critique other. If the role was reverse, how would you react.

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Ginger Jul 12th, 2007 at 6:59 am

Hi Hurt, don’t ass*u*me anything because my guess is I’m not far from you in age or Karmidiva but not agreeing with you all of a sudden made me sort of stupid, and yes I’m aware of all that has had passed in Laos, I know my roots and is aware of what is going on. In the General’s situation, it’s a desperate attempt on his part, there’s other way to help and please don’t ask me what other way? because I might be too ignorant to express my opinion here, let the WISE and KNOW IT ALL speak, thanks for explaining the situation to me, at this point I feel so stupid that I couldn’t think beyond my our thoughts.

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Lao Voices » Blog Archive » Right or Wrong? Jul 12th, 2007 at 11:08 pm

[...] Ginger: Hi Hurt, don’t ass*u*me anything because my guess is I’m not far from you in age or Karmidiva but… [...]

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karmadiva Jul 13th, 2007 at 1:06 am

Joy,Hurt, and Ginger, I am 36 and I was four when I left Laos as a refugee. Like Hurt, things I witness while crossing the Mekong will be forever etched in my memory even though I was so young. I have asked my mom about the things I have remember and she has filled in the gaps and confirm my experience. The bottom line is this; it is wonderful that all of us are communicating like this. Dialogue is the key to understanding. In fact, it is because of our difference in opinion that has helped us understand, reflect, and moved us to be more aware of what is going on. It is so vital that we are talking about this issue because the more we do the more we can be objective. Yes, sometime we get so passionate about our beliefs (I'm SO guilty of this!) that we fail to stop and critically think about what others are saying. As humans it is okay to do this! All of our opinions matter! I will end with some reflections:1. We should always use the past to help us make a positive change politically, socially, or religiously. 2. We should never watch another human suffer if we can do something about it. We can talk about it but then we need to act on our words. If we say we care then we need to show it.3. We must always choose a side in every conflict because it reflects our character. If we remain neutral we are being passive. 4. It is everybody's job to affect change in the word through our words and deed. I hope everybody will always be passionate about their opinions. Right or Wrong it's a matter of opinion!

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DJ Jul 13th, 2007 at 5:19 am

What if both sides are wrong? Why should we chose the less evil? Not supporting anyone is also an action in my humble opinion.

We shouldn't be too quick to jump into conclusions and not fall into propaganda and must ask ourselves what is really behind all of this. We have to look for hidden agenda.

Why is this that in America, people are given the opportunity of "innocent until proven guilty" and yet when it comes to the current Lao government, many people "right wing Lao Americans" are so quick to blame the Lao government for everything and anything that is going on in the country.

Please do some really hard core research before starting to point a finger.

I have suffered as much if not more than most of you out there and have so many stories to tell.

I've seen the original version of "Hunted like animals" a few years ago, before it was edited now and was devastated. But I also questioned how the Fact Finding Commission is using the material for collection funds, with promises to bring food and medicine to those people in the jungle.

This Fact Finding Commission has a group of people touring the US and Europe, showing the film even before it was given to Rebecca Sommer to help in promoting the film. She has her own foundation with her own purposes. What do these people ask for? Contributions in the form of money. Where does the money really go? Who knows…..

There are too much finger pointings going on. I am not going to say that there are no Hmongs in hiding. But if they are then why are they in hiding? Who are they listening to and refuse not to come out and be part of the society? Who are they believing in that they will rather starve and die figthing to the last breath, even though the conflict ended in 1975?

I've noticed how when someone doesn't agree with the rest of the group or start to ask questions, we are being bullied into thinking along the same line.

It's great and all to have faith in a leader and to follow him to the death without even question his actions. Many people did that with Hitler and we all know how history turned out.

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Ginger Jul 13th, 2007 at 7:06 am

Hi guys, I think we all feel hurt in our own little way, I left Laos when I was 5 years old but lived in Thailand for almost 5 years and I had the same nightmare of Laos for over 5 years, might be because I was so traumatized by the whole situation, even though some of us didn’t see the horrific images of the war, but we knew that they’re there…you should never assume that some of us are ignorant of what has (had) been going on, not matter how young or old we are.

I hate war because of what has happened to us, which I never wish that on anyone, but human are full of greed and there’s always going to be someone(s) that think that there are the ‘superheroes’ and I can’t say that I agree with them most of the time, even the US that’s trying to budding in on everyone’s business, a lot of destruction and innocent people suffering, is it wrong for them to be in those regions during war time, no and war is gruesome and have no mercy on anyone, even the innocent children.

I’ve heard the General spoke in the past that he cares for his people (which I truly believe that he does) and his messages were exactly what I, or any Laotian want to hear, especially the elders that are so bitter and still can’t let go of the past and still living in the past, but then those were only words and I believe that action speaks louder than words. When your actions start to conflicting with your words, then people start to question, I’m no different, I question too many things in life, I’ve even considering that the US is trying to get on the good side of the Lao government because they’re seeing something that they like in Laos, sort of diamond in the rough.

The whole situation is upsetting to me because the general is milking the situations of the past, just like Hurt is using the images of the war to get his/her point across, yes I feel hurt and the pain is still there but we can’t let those images impair our judgments and that’s war, not just in Laos but everywhere.

If you want to help, there are organizations that goes into Laos that you can be a part of, Lao Planet chooses the book box fund and help to build the school, our goal is concentrating on the children of Laos because they are our future and it might not be a lot but anything help and can make a difference. You can even start something of your own, everything starts with an idea, and we all can make a difference, it’s a matter of wanting to or not. If you think you are Laotian, you’re hurt by the war in some fashion, if you can’t remember…you still see the hurting in your love ones.

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karmadiva Jul 13th, 2007 at 2:03 pm

Hi Darly! You made a good point, yes at times when both sides are wrong we can remain neutral, but we don't have to be silent. For example, when my sisters argue and I don't agree with both of them, I let them tell their sides and then try to encourage them see and understand each other's point of view by listing the good and bad points of their argument. I always start off by saying: okay I can understand both of your points… The situation with General Van Pao is very similiar to this example I have given.

Everybody who have commented on this issue is telling their point of view, their sides and perspective. Now, my next step is to look at all those points of view and make a sound judgement. I don't agree with everything everybody has said, but it has helped me really understand the situation better. In order for us to not blindly follow anybody we must be able to think for ourselves and question those who are adamant that they are right. Like I said before, the past or history has given us an important lesson which is to not make the same mistake twice. Everyone of us have suffered in one way or another, we are all in agreement with that.

I think that was never a question. Also, like I said before in my earlier comments, we can't compare our sufferings to each others because it is uniquely our own. We don't have to compete either to see who has suffered more. That is not the point. The point is we all have the same core beliefs: we want change for the better and we want to end suffering.

I hope all of you hop in my boat and help me paddle against the current and make it upstream! In order to affect change we have to work together otherwise it is going to be a long journey for all of us. Our journey from our former countries has led us to this moment of truth. We must do our part in helping those left behind.

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joy Jul 17th, 2007 at 11:55 am

Thank you so much, most of these comments are so respectful and it was helped me to understand many point of views, whereever the situation turns, i hope that everyone will stand by each other’s side. Even if the end, the General is proven guilty, he will serve his time, but please let the fight for the innocent lives being slaughter in the jungles of Laos continue. I am really hurt just like everyone else bacause one of the current kidnapps included my cousin.
Like everyone has said, each and everyone of us suffered somehow, and that is how we are common, yet so different. God bless.

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