Long and prosperous
Wishing everyone a healthy and prosperous new year!
Talking about health and prosperity: below a graph where the average life expectancy is displayed per country versus the costs of health care in that particular country. Conclusion: If you want to live long at reasonable costs you might want to go to Japan.
Shorter lived and immensely expensive would be the destiny of people living in the US. What was that again, that very efficient US market economy of health care that Neocons love to talk about?
Care to answer a few Quiz questions about Lao Health Care? Be honest about your results 
Does your graph show how much money US spend on non citizens/legal resident without health insurance?
Do you have a graph that show the type and quality of service provide my US healthcare providers and hospitals?
Oh my, Dallas, those darn Mexican illegals did it again? Please don’t reason that way, you know better
That would be completely false info…. blame the Mexicans.
You are not Bush’s sheeple, are you?
It is about inefficiency and overconsumption of US citizens. And with all that beautiful medicine, they live as longs as the average Cuban. Chapeau!
As you can see your or anyone’s hospital was not included since this data is aggregated. So we are talking in general terms here, at country level, not local, as should be clear from the graph.
As for your quality of service: that depends how you are insured in the US.
I would advice you to go and see Michael Moore’s movie "Sicko". If you are not properly insured then will it will be hard for you to get any expensive (lifesaving) treatment. No money, no treatment. I highly, highly doubt that US health service is higher of quality than Western Europe, Iceland or Japan.
That’s another Neocon fallacy they throw at you daily to scare (main purpose, works very well) you which consequently makes you vote old angry white men aka Reps who will protect you from all “left-wing evil”. Yah. Look at the stats
Definitely without a doubt in my mind, there is inefficiency and overconsumption regarding US healthcare system.
There are many factors contributing to the inefficiency and overconsumption. What I mentioned is just one of many factors. That was just my opinion on the spending.
End of the day, how about all of us move to Japan.
overconsumption? Meaning we have too much healthcare? Why then do I have to go to Aek Udon in Udonthani for preventative medicine instead of Denver where I live?
Dallas, Dr. Somchai perscribes straight tap water in large gulps. Give up that coolaid you been drinkin.
The inefficiencies began thirty years ago when we allowed hospitals and health insurance companies to become regular for profit entities. Imagine what would happen if they were concerned with healthcare not profit.
That’s one heck of a graph. Thank you to whoever made this post.
How about we take back America.
Padek and Somchai,
Let just be clear. I do not join the Republican party to become a Republican. My way of thinking is inline with the Republican. As long as I can remember this is how I think. If that make me Republican well so be it.
I heard the term Neocon, leftwing conspiracy, drinking coolaid when come to discussing politic all the time. I am not sure what they even mean but I don’t think it is good. I am sure I can google it to find out. I do not understand why you guys must throw that term around. We can debate which party did what but it doesn’t get to the bottom of things or we can work together to fix the mess.
Padek graph shows that US spend more money than the rest of the world on healthcare. That is a fact.
Somchai, I’ve already said one of the factor contributing to the spending. I live in Dallas. We have a problem at one of our hospital here. The name is Parkland Memorial.
I didn’t mention politic on my initial comment. I guess that what is going to take to fix the problem. Politic is something I don’t like and don’t know much about so this will be my last comment.
Hello all! Let me shed some light on this situation. I am not an expert on healthcare, but my little brother is a clinical pharmacist and he deals with all sorts of health insurance, from medicare, medicaid etc. I asked him which income group (low, middle and high) had better coverage. He said the people with the higher income has the best health insurance because their deductible is lower and they are less restricted. There are more restrictions for the low income and middle income group… such as you can’t go to a provider outside your network or you pay more, certain procedures are not covered etc… I will explain in details with my brother’s help on my blog to explain it better. I know some of you are falling asleep reading this right now!:)
Dallas, I live in Yuma where we have one of the highest rate of illegal immigrants passing through. About two years ago, our hospital was finally reimburse 1.2 million that they had spent on taking care of illegal immigrants. So, your comment about this issue is warranted. I’ll touch on that topic as well when I write a post at wordpress. Sorry Darly for writing so much! I try to limit my points!:)
Karmadiva (aka Laotian teacher) here again. Dallas, I have to side with you on the issue of illegal immigrants affecting our healthcare and our health. This article http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters64bf confirms the point you are trying to make. We know illegal immigrants can affect us financially, but did you know they can also affect us physically? Read the article and decide for yourself.
Ok, when we are talking about sensitive subjects such as illegal immigrants and their impact on the american economy as a whole (they also bring in money!), then we should be very careful in picking our sources.
Fairus.org is NOT a good source since it is an unknown group of people from unclear origin that has the propensity and sole task to demonize immigration. They simply run an anti-immigration agenda, which is fine, but they are not worth quoting because anything you find there is anti-immigration.
Simply Googling the first site that comes up on result page 1 with your keyword is not going to cut it here.
Firstly, Illegal immigrants, who also pay taxes, are excluded from almost all welfare benefits,as well as unemployment insurance and nonemergency health care services. If we talking about health care consumption of Illegal immigrants in the US, we are talking about emergencies.
Secondly, millions of immigrants will get their legal status and by paying trough taxes, in the long run, contribute much more to the economy than they take from it.
Thirdly, no matter how much the finger is pointed to poor immigrants (who are mostly young and less sick people), they can not be held responsible for that huge spike in the expenditure of US health care. Even when you fully deduct their contribution, you would see the same spike with just a little less higher top.
It is the pill-for-everything mentality; the overconsumption of doctor services and especially medicine. A pill for every visit, throw in antibiotics like crazy to the point everyone becomes resistant to it, even when it is not necessary. US doctors are afraid to get sued so they will prescribe anything (given the patient won’t die on short term).
I like Dr Somchai’s advice: take water instead of sodas. And the Japanese eat fish as their primary diet and take care of their body and mind. I would look into that before I would go and bash illegal immigrants.
Not denying illegality is a problem but my point is that illegality can simply not be held responsible as the (sole) source for huge health care expenditures in the US.
I feel like we have too many specialists, and if you go visit your family doctor and they think that there is something wrong with you, instead of treating you, they send you to have millions of test done before they even give you anything, and that drives up the cost of health care IMO. If we have to talk about mishandling or abusive of health insurance, the Laotians are equally as bad for instance, several years back the wives of those that worked in the Nissan plant in TN went to CA to have cosmetic make over and the doctor classified these nose job and bops job as allergy treatment, guess what they found out that it was not, and those husbands got fired from their job, and the really sad part of the story was that some of the wives with new racks left their husband for a new husband. I think the illegal immigration is just a platform use by politician but really, the abuse of health care is everywhere, even at the level of doctors that would file fraudulent insurance claim.
Kool Aid is a cultural reference to the blind following of a cult leader. In the late 1970s nine hundred followers of Jim Jones commited mass suicide by drinking poison laced Kool Aid.
I think we miss the point here on discussing weather or not illeagal Mexicans cost us on health care. Of course they do. They also depress wages, I don’t blame them but rather those who wish to depress the wages of American workers by continuing to support them coming here. (1% average per year increase for middle class over 30 years)
The more salient point is do we wish to provide health care to them, or to convicts, or old people, or drug adicts.
Most modern advanced industrialized countries have decided health care is a basic human right. When looked upon from that perspective of course we provide care to any and all within our borders.
I realize politics is a contentious subject, but politics runs our healthcare. When I hear the words "overconsumption" in relation to healthcare I know that’s the code word for removing public spending on healthcare. The idea being that if people have to spend money on the doctor they will spend less, when we go to the doctor and allow an isurance company or a governmental body to pick up the tab we are less carefull with the spending. By that measure the uninsured should be healthy and saving money. There’s an opinion piece in today’s New York Times (Thursday Jan 3), quoting from two new studies by the Harvard Med School and the JAMA, telling us once again that without insurance you are much more likely to die of cancer, heart condition or diabetes.
Being misdirected from the issues of health care is often the point. If you can stir people up with the threat of a brown skinned hordes overrunning us from the south or infidels crashing planes or gay people doing gosh knows what behind closed doors, then you might well get people to overlook just how much we spend for such bad health care.
The US health care industry is very big and one of the most profitable industries in America. I don’t know if we can dislodge it. I used to worry about the dispraportionate infusion of cash by the healthcare industry into the Republican Party, now I worry even more because it’s tilted strongly towards the Democrats. They are buying our politicians.
Padek, I did google and I did use one of the first article even though I looked at different sources, better sources. The reason why I used the first article is because it sums up the controversy and perception about health care. I use this article because I can relate personally and do see the impact of illegal immigrantation: the negative and the positive. That article from FAIR makes a good point: 1). illegals do affect our healthcare system however big or small. I’m not saying they are totally to blame because that would be ignorant. Just like everything else in our society there are so many factors that contribute to societal’s ills. However, you can not convince me that it is fair to us that an illegal immigrant can go to a clinic or an emergency room and get FREE care while we citizens work hard and have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for our insurance and yet still have to pay out of pocket. Illegal immigrants can get free care because one the hospital do not deny service to anyone. How do the illegals get treated without paying? All they have to do is fill out the paper work, put down a fake address, social security and on the insurance part put no insurance. Later the hospital would send the bill to that bogus address and what do you think happens? Hospitals across our country spends millions of dollars in treating illegal immigrants that they do not immediately get reimburse for such as Yuma Regional Medical Center. Try googling Yuma, Az where I live. Yuma sector has one of the largest number of border patrol agents in the country manning the area because we have a huge number of people trying to cross over.
As a teacher just like a doctor I do not deny service to a student who is an illegal. I am compassionate toward their plight and know they do help our economy especially in this area. Our farmers do rely on undocumentated immigrants to pick their lettuce, oranges, and limes. Just with everything there is a negative and positive. My point is if we want to solve our health care problem we must look at every point.
Ginger, it is productive that we all express our many points of view about this issue and this is what the law makers need to do. They need to look at this issue from the different angles in order to improve our health care. Everybody’s argument is good because it gives us a sense of why it is difficult to solve our health care crisis. Now we need to be responsible citizens and vote for the best candidate that will help us alleviate this crisis. It is not only to benefit anyone by just talking about it! Go out and vote and make your voice heard.
Anyone interested in reading a good book that really explains illegal immigration from the points of view of: the coyote, the illegals, the border patrol, the family and the community need to read The Devil’s High Way. This book will reinterate that when it comes to illegal immigration what is right or wrong depends on who you are, where you are from and what is important in life. Thanks everyone for an awesome tit for tat!:) Until next time!
Ok, this is my initial and primary response to a few of Karmadiva’s comments that simply and genuinely turn my stomach (and I am considered right wing in the Netherlands, can you believe that?)
First one of Karmadiva’s comment I can’t process well:"Dallas, I have to side with you on the issue of illegal immigrants affecting our healthcare and our health". Now that is a truly demonizing statement towards these people.
They make you physically sick?
What a self-centered, low, mean and super egotistical derogatory remark cooked up in some hillbilly school of thought. This is evil in analogy to nazis calling the Jews üntermenschen (below standard people).
Another one: "However, you can not convince me that it is fair to us that an illegal immigrant can go to a clinic or an emergency room and get FREE care while we citizens work hard and have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for our insurance and yet still have to pay out of pocket."
And then what? You’d like to have them perish on the streets after they have worked to increase your quick profits, deny them the most essential medical care in their time of need. I mean, real essential needs, non-emergency Medicaid is denied to them in any case. Providing emergency assistance is your humanitarian task as one of the richest countries in the world; your moral obligation aside from the political issue of reducing illegal immigration.
I see the principles of solidarity are hard to find in America’s red states. But, fair to say, proposition 187 did not make it in California for a very long time so there are still plenty of people using their hearts and minds.
Some people forgot they were immigrants themselves at one point and became myopic self-centered whiners without any sense of international history or compassion.
Yes, you might run down to your churches and temples, -what three/four times a week- or more but you forgot to practice what you preach; compassion and humanity.
Last one I find hard to digest:"As a teacher just like a doctor I do not deny service to a student who is an illegal. "Ehr, nope, because you are strictly forbidden to do so by an extremely good law created to protect the innocent from arbitrariness of those that hold power over them. Suppose teachers won’t teach students because they don’t like their face, or don’t like the color of their skin. What on earth kind of comment is that to make as a "teacher", you proclaim so much. You care more for this title than the actual content of your work, it seems.
Compassion and solidarity is a scarce good. L’histoire se repete. I will go into some backgrounds and figures (not some book with a single case or the first Googled site) later but right now I am too much distracted by the viciousness of the content I have seen posted by Karmadiva….
Padek, you are over analyzing everything I say. I’m sorry that you are getting the wrong idea about me but it is your point of view and I respect that. I laughed when I read the part about the viciousness of the content of my post because you totally missed the point and you are totally misjudging me. First of all as a teacher, I teach tolerance and acceptance for all kinds of people. Yes over my thirteen years of teaching I had students who were illegals, and yes I knew it and if I was the crazy illegal immigrant hater you accused me of being then I would have a lot of kids thrown out of the country. If my students were to read the comments you made about me caring more about my title then content of my work, they would laugh too because I am far from the Nazi you make me out to be. Actions speaks louder than words, if you are interested in REALLY knowing how I am as teacher please visit my class blog: http://kapush.wordpress.com/. I take my job seriously as a teacher and I AM DAMN GOOD AT WHAT I DO because I AM THE MOST PASSIONATE AND CARING TEACHER MY STUDENTS HAVE. I did not get nomimated for Teacher of the Year in Yuma because I just “cared” for the title. I was a nominee because my administrators saw how much I did for ALL my students! W
Padek, I have sympathy for the illegal immigrants and understand their plight. Also, I DO remember that I was once an immigrant, but I came legally and yes it took me three years to get here. I do not blame the illegal immigrants for everything. I agree that it is our moral responsibility to help anybody in need. I never say to not help them.
This issue is so complicated and there are so many things to consider. We all have different points of view and that’s fine but there is no need to make assumptions and attack each other. Please do not take my statements and blow it out of proportion.
By the way, please read that book I mentioned The Devil’s Highway and you will see why I recommended it. You might have to take back some of the assumptions you made about me after you read the book.:)
I don’t know about the most compassionate teacher but you certainly sound like one of the most POMPOUS ones. A bit too eager to trumpet your own horn there, madam "nominee".
You directly related this topic of health care cost per capita versus life expectancy to illegal immigrants and their costs on health care. With that, making your own little Fox News Yuma Edition there, you stepped across a line of good taste and morality imho.
In general these immigrants coming to the US are young people (=less sick), denied from any regular Medicaid (justifiable, yes), and only have some access to emergency aid. On top of that, whenever they must use such services, the INS will be informed which makes them even less likely to use these services.
Point is: relating health care consumption of illegal immigrants as an important cause of the above cost spike is non-sense and out of line, serving some Neo conservative agenda.
The problem of illegal immigration and the huge expenses of health care in the US have different causes. Distinct immigration from health care costs.
You claim to have read many books but perhaps you should look into some more systematic and rigorous work and not so much the anecdotal story telling you seem to favor.
Anecdotes are great until you speak in general term making large inference mistakes about groups of people and, thereby, singling out and demonizing a group of people based on unfunded claims.
Also, one of your problems seems to be that you probably read books but you do not seem to understand what you read. I did not say you are a nazi but I explained you are making claims singling out people in analogy how Nazis did this to Jews, to stigmatize them. Also, simplifying my words into terms as crazy and over analyzing without bringing a rebuttal other than that is not very convincing.
Moreover, I’d advice you, as the self-proclaimed best teacher of Yuma, to more carefully pick your words and don’t throw in TV one liners with these sensitive subjects.
All your claims of not being a hater are not backed up by your initial words. Sure, now you are talking a lot how good you and how much people love you but what does that prove? You are to me what you started out in your comment. I don’t know you.
You started out relating health care expenses to illegal immigrants. A big mistake. Opened a box of misery there.
Padek,
I am not going to trade barbs with you because you obviously think you know everything. It is a turn off to people who are interested in debating, contemplating about issues. I hope YOU are not in the teaching profession because you would not give your students a chance to think for themselves or make their own observations about anything because you would be so busy trying to disprove everything they say.
Insulting people and calling them names is not a good way to open any discussion about any issue. Attacking them personally is down right rude and unacceptable. There is always a way for you to disagree with people, please remember that.
Debate? At no point I felt I was in a debate with you. You come up here demonizing people. A debate is where people exchange facts and points of views that have substance. I am sorry, but that does not seem to be your cup of tea.
You are a teacher only capable of one-way communication. Seen too much of those already.
Like I said: your remarks turned my stomach and perhaps that showed. Now move on to greener pastures. I don’t want your teachings because it has no clear substance or distinctive capabilities, just pitiful slandering.
[...] a follow up to the long and prosperous post, it was time to elaborate on the costs of health care. For this, I use a report of the that use [...]
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