The Buddhist Monk Who Started Wat Lao Buddharam of Charlotte, North Carolina
This legal battle of LAOTIAN CULTURE CENTER OF NC -VS- WAT LAO BUDDHARAM made me think of an article that I read in the fist issue, April-May 2007 of Lao Roots Magazine written by Meiling Arounnarath called the Buddhist Monk Who Led, Who Inspired. He was the Ajahn that started the temple, I often wondered if he was still living, would this have happened.
He drove. For almost 3,000 miles, he drove. In a red, 1964 Ford pickup truck with a white stripe around it, he drove. With a giant, golden Buddha statue resting on the bed of the truck. Wearing his marigold-tinged robe and a shaved head.
That day in 1988, Dr Phramaha Singthong Thitadhammo Banlusak drove to Charlotte, North Carolina, because the new temple there needed a statue of Buddha.
Better known as Ajahn Singthong Banlusak, the head monk of Wat Lao Buddharam, or the Lao Buddharam Temple, of San Diego, drove around the country for years to help establish Laotian Buddhist temples.
But he wasn’t just creating places for Laotian Buddhists to worship. He was creating places where people turn to in hard times and in good times. They were places where people didn’t just go to meet, but to gather, and to break bread-to break sticky rice, rather. To share recipes. To share knowledge. To share language. To share culture. To share stories.
And that’s just one reason why many revered him as the leader of the Laotian Buddhists in America.
Now, more than three years after he passed away, his accomplishments can be seen in the form of six temples across the United States. There’s the Lao Buddharam Temple of San Diego; the Buddharam Temple of Amarillo, Texas; the Lao Buddhavath Temple of Des Moines, Iowa; Lao Buddharam of Charlotte, North Carolina; Lao Buddharam of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.; and Lao Buddharam of Hampshire, Illinois. The one in Charlotte even has a statue of Banlusak’s likeness sitting at the altar.
The Funeral
The temples aren’t the only measures of his influence on this earth, though. He has left behind so much more.
Just ask one of the more than 10,000 people who came out to his two-week long funeral that began on Jan.24, 2004.
People, mostly Laotians, came from San Diego, Chicago, parts of Ohio-from all over the country, said Sam Vorachack, who is a police-community relations officer with the San Diego Police Department, and who was present at the funeral.
But there weren’t many tears shed.
“People didn’t go there for the purpose of crying,” Vorachack said. “They were there out of respect.”
“He had done a lot for the [different] communities,” he explained, referring to the non-Laotians and the non-Buddhists as well. “People from every set of life came to him.”
Banlusak was 72 when he died of natural causes on Nov. 14, 2003. He was in Elgin, Ill., where he was raising money to help build yet another Laotian Buddhist temple. His funeral was delayed more than two months out of respect for him and for the people who wanted to travel to San Diego to attend it.
In the city of more than 1.2 million people, Vorachack said it was the biggest funeral he had ever seen there; he has been with the San Diego Police Department for 20 years, and he has lived in the city his entire life.
“I haven’t seen anything like that,” he said. “It went on day and night. People had to cook 24 hours to feed all the people who were there for the two weeks-they were cooking for the monks, for themselves, for the people who [traveled there] to respect the body of Ajahn Singthong.”
Many members of the San Diego community not only cooked but also donated money, bottled water, flowers, and many of the other things that were needed to keep the funeral going, and to sustain the mourners, Vorachack said.
The ceremony was conducted at Wat Lao Buddharam. And on the day of the funeral, a procession with Banlusak’s body in a white casket resting on a float traveled about three miles from the temple to the Greenwood Mortuary.
Police had to close the streets. Buses were running continuously to take people in and out of the temple to the mortuary.
Even the mayor and the police chief of San Diego, among other city leaders, sent their respects in the form of condolence letters to the Laotian-American community of the city.
“I was saddened to hear about the passing of Abbott Dr. Phramaha Singthong Thitadhammo banlusack [sic],” wrote former mayor Dick Murphy. “[He] was a great leader of the Lao-American community and the members of Wat Lao Buddharam of San Diego…[He] will be missed and remembered by many. May your hearts find comfort during this difficult time, and solace upon his every remembrance.”
Police Chief William Lansdowne wrote a letter on behalf of the entire city police department.
“I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the men and women of the San Diego Police Department to express our deepest sympathy of the loss of Dr. Phramaha Singthong Thitadhammo Banlusack [sic] Lansdowne wrote. “[He] will be truly missed by all. He was a great teacher who touched the lives of many. His leadership and vision laid the foundation for the Wat Lao Buddharam of San Diego.”
The Milestones
Banlusak was born on March 15, 1931 at Ban Nakhon, tasseng Nambak, of the Luang Prabang province in Laos. When he was 12 years old, he entered the monkhood as a novice and spent the next eight years studying Buddhism. At 21, he was ordained as a Buddhist monk at Wat Mai in Luang Prabang. He went on to earn other degrees and honors in Laos and in India.
Banlusak earned a master’s degree in Buddhist philosophy from Magadh University in the Bodh Baya province in India in 1972. During that time, Laos was under a change in government, so he had to stay in India under exile until he immigrated to the United States.
In 1980, Banlusak settled in the United States. Two years later, he began working toward a Ph.D. in Buddhist philosophy from Magadh University, and he received the degree in 2000 after years of traveling back and forth between India and the United States.
Also in 1982, Banlusak was asked by the supreme patriarch of Lao Buddhism in Laos to found the Lao Buddhist Monks Association in the United States, for which Banlusak was immediately elected chairperson for 12 two-year terms and served under that title until his death.
The Legacy
But it’s the stuff in between the milestones that makes people really remember their religious leader-their community leader-whom they call Ajahn Singthong.
It was their interactions with him. It was his calm words, his calm presence. It was his conviction for creating worshipping places, gathering places, for the Laotian people who pined for community and for commonality.
One example is what he helped create at Wat Lao Buddharam of Charlotte, which also acts as the Laotian Culture Center of North Carolina. Banlusak was so busy with establishing temples during his lifetime that he was only able to visit the Charlotte temple once or twice a year. But that was enough for some people.
After he passed, the leaders of the culture center ordered a statue resembling Banlusak to be made in Laos and shipped to Charlotte.
“We had to have a statue to show the children, so we can pass on the children [the knowledge of] who started the temple,” and Tui Lengsavat, secretary and treasurer of the center. “We want them to know who he [was].”
Syma Inthanonh, founder of the center, echoed the sentiment. “We like to use him as an example: ‘To be a good person and to do good for others, and people will remember you.’” Inthanonh said.
Every winter since he passed away, the Charlotte temple has a ceremony and celebration to honor Banlusak because he died in the wintertime. The center’s leaders want the children to remember why it’s a special time, Inthanonh said.
What do they remember most about their Ajanh Singthong?
“I think he was worried about the Lao culture and religion, and the future of them.” Lengsavat said. He wanted to build a future for the Laotian people who settled in the United States, he added.
“What he left were a lot of good memories-the good things he did,” Inthanonh said. “He did so many things. I cannot believe he drove the truck 3,000 miles from California! Back then, he didn’t have many monks to help him out; he did everything himself.”
And those who interacted with him more frequently in San Diego not only remember his actions. They remember his demeanor.
“Especially when you have something going wrong in your life, you go to him to calm you down.” Vorachack said. Even young members of gangs turned to Banlusak many times. Or parents would send their teenage sons to be ordained as novices during the summer, and they would live as monks do for three months. It kept them out of trouble, Vorachack explained.
“He’s just a kind person that I cannot find anywhere,” he said. “His patience, his understanding, how he relates to people, the way he talks. He does everything for the community, not for himself.”
Updated 5/14/08 at 12:45 p.m.
The Successor
Now, a 42-year-old monk known as Ajahn Ouan is filling Banlusak’s shoes at the San Diego temple.
“I didn’t want to become the leader of the temple,” he said in Laotian. “But it had to be done. The citizens, the lay people at the temple, had chosen me to be their next leader.”
And if he refused, he feared the temple would fall into the wrong hands, said the monk who was Banlusak’s right-hand man, and that the important symbol-the haven-for the Laotian community would split or disintegrate. After Banlusak died, different people wanted control of Wat Lao Buddharam and of the monks practicing there.
“If I didn’t take on the responsibilities, who would?” Ajahn Ouan said.
He remembers arriving at the San Diego temple when he was 24 or 25 years old. Banlusak welcomed him, and told him he and the other monks were happy he could join Wat Lao Buddharam.
Ajahn Ouan said San Diego seemed to be the right fit for him because there were already a lot of Laotians in the area, and because he felt he could learn a lot at that temple.
“I thought I could gain a lot of knowledge and wisdom from Ajahn Singthong,” he said.
And then he became like a father to him.
He was a man of few words, Ajahn Ouan recalls. So everything he said was important and was to be regarded.
Ajahn Ouan said his fondest memory of his master and teacher was that he always treated everyone with respect.
“He was a good person. He treated everyone equally, no matter where they came from,” he said. “He respected everyone, young or old.”
“Everywhere he went, he was selfless,” said Ajahn Ouan, explaining what he wants people to remember most about the leader of the Laotian Buddhists in America. “He was such a good person, and did such a good for others that they wanted to do good deeds in return.”
“I regret that he had to pass away. He took full responsibility for the entire temple: for the monks, for the lay people,” Ajahn Ouan said. “I miss him. And I feel so sad he’s gone.”
“I miss him so much,” he said again. “When he passed, I didn’t want to cry, but the tears still came.”
Ajahn Ouan isn’t alone in keeping alive memories of the monk who was a father figure to thousands.
Aside from the statue, the temple-goers in Charlotte had another way of remembering Ajahn Singthong: the red, 1964 pickup still sat in their gravel parking lot after he passed away. It was a truck that held its own memories. It had been around the country. It had carried Buddhist relics. It was a vehicle for greatness.
Without it, six temples may not have been built. Without it, some Laotian Buddhists may not have had their community centers. Without that red, white-striped truck, 10,000 people may not have shown up in San Diego to express their love for a man some of them had never even met.
Inthanonh and Lengsavat decided to finally get rid of the pickup last year since it was no longer working. But they held onto it as long as they could.
It seems they’ve realized that they don’t need the truck to keep their leader’s memories alive.
It’s their words that accomplish that. And the stories they’ll tell the children of how Ajahn Singthong Banlusak brought the Laotians in America together during the time they craved fro togetherness the most.
I am confuse. Did the Syma brothers or Ajahn Banlusak created/established this Cultural Center/Temple.
I think the Lao Culture Center also known as Wat Lao Buddharam of Charlotte, North Carolina belongs to Syma and his brother. Syma is an MT (Medical Technologist) by trade, obviously not a religious leader therefore needed someone that is (was) well known at the time to lead the Buddhist Temple. According to the article, Ajahn Singthong Banlusak helped created Wat Lao Buddharam of Charlotte, which also acts as the Laotian Culture Center of North Carolina. And for the leader of the culture center to order a statue resembling Ajahn Banlusak, he must have had played an important role at the Wat. According to Tui Lengsavat, secretary and treasurer of the center, “We had to have a statue to show the children, so we can pass on the children [the knowledge of] who started the temple. We want them to know who he [was].”
Syma Inthanonh, founder of the center said, “We like to use him as an example: “To be a good person and to do good for others, and people will remember you.”
Words are CHEAP I believed, in this case his (Syma) actions speak louder than his words.
Thanks, Nye Ginger.
I read the quote by Syma and I was laughing so hard afterward. You know I see contradiction everytime I go to the temple. I try not to let it bother me but sometime you can not help it but to speak out.
It is the criminal investigation of Syma and crew that will clean the closets of the LCC. If I had a nickel for every lie he told…………….
He has thrown away $132,000 in the last two years. Trying to force contractors to do his bidding and not having the proper permits. Always it is the contractors’ fault. He was so stupid, he tried 3 times to force an expansion, 3 times failed. I wouldn’t let him hold my soda money. The last time he lost a $20,000 downpayment on a General Steel Building. He didn’t have the sense to have it delivered and stored on the grounds until he could get a permit to assemble it. What a moron. I wouldn’t let him hold my urine sample.
The Temple in Charlotte was represented as Wat Lao Buddharam. Prah Banlusak started the fundraising with a $15,000 donation from CA. if my sources are correct. Syma led the incorporation as LCCNC but didn’t have it on any sign until 2002, when a small script appeared under the Wat Lao Buddharam, sort of like a description. It doesn’t say LCCNC, OWNERS. Like Beavers Daycare, where kids can learn. Is where kids can learn the name of the corporation? Since then, it appears corruption has taken over. The taste of ill gotten gains drives some people so mad they lose touch with reality.
This is becoming a bad case of Monk gate
Entity Name
Type
Status
Formed
Laotian Culture Center of North Carolina
NP
Current-Active
10/27/1988
Wat Lao Buddharam
NP
Current-Active
12/1/2006
http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/corporations/Agent.aspx?AgentId=5372438
Thanks Lao Buddhist for the helpful information. I think it’s sad that Ajahn Singthong Banlusak helped built Wat Lao Buddharam but it was registered under Laotian Culture Center of North Carolina all these years, and even when he passed away in November 14, 2003, then Wat Lao Buddharam was registered, or legally date formed on December 1, 2006, clearly after the fact, after the legal battle has proceeded.
I think it’s obvious here in this situation of the intention, I don’t know Syma personally (I didn’t even know the name of the Wat until recently because most people called it ‘Wat Syma’ and I thought that’s the name.) I’m not going to bash him based on the information that I hear from people, and I hope Lao Voices readers are not too harsh on your comments, saying mean things about him will not bring things to justice but mainly for your own personal satisfaction, I understand how you feel and we all want the evil doers to pay for his evil deeds, I think time will come, but it’s just not fast enough. We must not forget that Patience is Virtual, the basic teaching of Buddhism (easy said than done, I know.)
How would the Lao people of Charlotte, NC, prevent this kind of trouble from happening again?
What is happening in Charlotte is very common. It has happened in many parts of the country.
To establish a Lao Buddhist temple in the US, in most cases, a Buddhist monk and a group of supporters are needed. During the early establishment, the power does not seem to be important. The people just want to have a place to worship. Most of the Lao people go to a Buddhist temple just to worship. They don’t care about who or how the temple is run. After the organization is visible as a big $, some people start to think about administrating, most of all, the spending. In many cases they had to turn to the system that they had ignored, the legal system, to solve the problems. In the street, people are spreading rumors. There are mostly “he said” and “she said”.
Who runs a Lao Buddhist temple? Sometime a monk does, but some temples are run by a layman. Instead of calling the real name of a temple, many people would use the name of the most powerful person in that temple, such as “Wat Syma”, Wat Ajarn A or Wat Ajarn B.
This broken system in the Lao temples in the US needs to be fixed ASAP.
Lao Buddhist, of what you said here,
“During the early establishment, the power does not seem to be important. The people just want to have a place to worship. Most of the Lao people go to a Buddhist temple just to worship. They don’t care about who or how the temple is run. After the organization is visible as a big $, some people start to think about administrating, most of all, the spending.”
no longer holds true, most Laonork pay more attention to who is running the Wat, and any new Wat that is run by lay(wo)man is looked at with the untrusting eyes, and might be because of the records showing in the past and also the obvious sign of $$ in their eyes (this is not to say that all Wats run by lay(wo)man are like this) I believed that if the legal registration and handling of the financing of the Wat is more transparent, then things might be more on the positive note, but instead of providing this when asked, the individual(s) become very offensive (my gut instinct tells me it’s a bad sign and stay away). Instead of Lao people wanting to support, they shy away, this is obviously not a way to handle the situation, or representing the Wat, but I guess to (some) of them, Wat is their ‘business’ (and non of your business) and Syma is a good example, everything is fuzzy.
What Laonork need to make things to run smoothly in any type of non profit or charity is ‘an action committee’ which we’re lacking, those individuals are hard to come by, and if you find one with the same interest, then maybe things can start to happen, I believed that communication is also the key, and again Laonork or Laonai are lacking this, I’d hate to deal with someone that would take them a month or over (Lao time or Lao way of doing things) to reply to my email, and some would just ignore you, the least of their problem and maybe you would go away, the Lao way of doing business, sad to say this, but Wat in the US needs someone with good ‘managerial skills’ because it takes money to build Wat, it’s not like, “if you build it, they will come” anymore.
Hi Ginger, Do the Lao people trust a monk to run a temple more than a layman or laywoman? How about you? Why?
You said “Laonork pay more attention to who is running the Wat”, I’m assuming that would be 51% or more of regular attendees. That is a good news. Does Laonork mean Lao-American or Lao people in the US?
When the leader of the temple did not want to answer important questions, what did the 51% do? If they don’t like the leader of the temple and shy away, where do they worship?
“I’d hate to deal with someone that would take them a month or over (Lao time or Lao way of doing things) to reply to my email” Are you talking about emailing a temple leader?
In Laos, temples belong to the government. An individual cannot sell or transfer the ownership of a temple but in the US they can.
I think as far as trusting the monk to run the Wat or not is based on the individual perception of things. There is a Wat in Greensboro of North Carolina that is ran by a monk, the Wat is run down, not very appearing to the eyes but the atmosphere of holiness is definitely there, this Wat serves the Khmer, Thais, and Lao as the monk can speak all three languages, the monk has charisma, the highest ranking monk in North Carolina, many go there to worship.
What does he do with the donated fund? As we all know that Wat in the US, there is the mortgage (rent) payment, the utilities, and other miscellaneous expenses that is very much like owning a home, or running a business. Most of us, meaning Lao people want to see their donated money to go toward building the Wat, building the community, which is nothing wrong with that, but many Lao people shy away from this Wat because he takes the money to help build the Wat in Cambodia, and also helping the poor Khmer living in Cambodia while he’s there (what he does is transparent to me.) Some Lao people feel that it’s not the right thing to do, as for me personally, I have no problem with that, but I can’t help to feel sad seeing the Wat so run down, again this is my personal view on things, I might not see the big picture like most Lao people, I have to admit that my view on this is very narrowed. It is not important to me as to who is running the Wat as long as the transparent is there, I don’t think that’s a lot to ask.
Laonork is the term used for any Lao people not living in Laos, as for my personal view, since I’m living in the US, Laonork means Lao people living in the US. When people shy away from the Wat, they just don’t worship, the future of the Wat in the US is not very stable, when my parents’ generation or mine is gone, I really don’t know what will happen, this I hear voice of concerns from the Lao elders.
As for Lao time or Lao way of doing things, that’s general of (some) Lao people that I have crossed path, I won’t name names but you’ll be surprised; this is a known fact, anyone can tell you this. Just like a Lao Website, if they say ‘coming soon’ it means when ever, maybe next year or in 2 or 3 years. I don’t get involve with the Wat activity, I just donate when I’m there, of course, this is my personal view on things, others might feel differently.
I am against monks running a day-to-day business side of the temple. There should be one head monk (abbot) who will be in charge of the monks but he should also be on the committee and have right to vote in all proposals with exception to budget and finance since monks should not handle money.
I’ve heard of this statement “monks should not handle money” but I’m not sure if those Lao monks, especially abbots, do exist in the US.
Nowadays many Lao Buddhist monks drive luxury cars. Most of the abbots have been in the monkhood for 10 years or longer. Most of the ones that passed away had tens or even hundreds of thousand of dollars in cash or propery.
One of the rumors surrounding the current Buddharam Temple’s legal battle is the involvement of the FBI. One person said FBI sent an agent to the temple. I’m not sure if he meant the Federal Bureau of Investigation, because the FBI would never be involved in this kind of dispute.
Dallas: I totally agree with you on this one. Buddhist Monks should not deal with worldly affairs like the daily business of the temple. The monks are spiritual leaders and guides and should put all efforts in helping the community achieving the spiritual state of mind (highest as possible).
I have seen videos of Lao temples in the US with monks sitting around watching movies, music videos, Thai lakorn and you name it. To me that is not appropriate to be spending time indulging in worldly things (pleasures). If there are free time then perhaps these monks could use that in doing something more useful like mediation, reading the scripture, or doing improvements on the temple’s ground. Maybe take part in the community like holding Lao language course like some Lao temples are doing during the summer time.
The incident at Wat Lao Buddharam in Illinois for example was talking about how the monks have their own refrigerator in their room as a luxury item. I agree that is against the rule (taking a vow of poverty). Kitchen should be off limit after certain hours so no need to stock food or drink in the monk’s room.
Ginger,
Regarding the Wat in Greensboro of North Carolina, I don’t think a temple or any religious institution should be run by one man/person, religious leader or common person. Having a charismatic leader, whether spiritual or political is not enough. Sometimes these charismatic leaders will lead us in the wrong path. As a community if we are to be led by a charming individuals with no questions, then the results can be devastating.
In this case, some people tend to adopt the policy of non-interference and not say anything in seeing how the donated money is being used. It is a safe way to do things. The temple is a holy place of worship and should be kept at the best state as possible by the community. In Laos for example, no matter how poor the village is, the temple is tended to the best of their ability, whether improving the structure or the ground. The monks all take part in repairing and painting the temple. My uncle’s temple for example, the monks would do all the construction works.
It’s self serving for this particular monk to take upon himself to promote his own causes. The current temple should be care for first and then other projects can be consider later on. To take the donated money to help the people in Cambodia and improving the temples there as well is noble and all. But why not the temples in Laos and Thailand also? Why not help the poor people in Laos and in Thailand too? After all there are Lao and Thai worshipers too. Things might be transparent but it’s a sort of dictatorship when members and visitors to the temple can’t say anything that would make any significant change to how things are being run. When the charms run out, then what? We just might have a dead temple.
In a perfect Buddhist world, I could not have agreed with Dallas and Darly more, but time has changed, and we certainly don’t expect the Buddhist monk to remain the same, I’ve no problem embracing this change of duty in the monkshood. Monks are religious leader and their job is to help guide and teach; from all the Wat that I have visited and monks that I saw, they wake up early in the morning to do their round of mediation, my dad visited Wat Lao Buddhavong of VA and slept at the worship hall for several nights, and he said that the monks meditate very early in the morning, and another meditation session called wat Lang (everyone is welcome to join this one) in the evening. Just because we saw some US monks on You Tube sitting around watching movies, music videos, Thai Lakorn should not mean that all monks in the US have this kind of behavior. Also these monks might be ‘Jour’ that are there for a short time. I know that the monks at Greensboro have a huge garden and have many, might be over 200 persimmons trees, the Wat has about 10 acres, the monks and the Lay(wo)men are the ones keeping it up. Laziness is each and individual’s behavior; we should not label all monks in the US as being lazy.
Wat Lao Buddhavong has Ajahn Jinda that handles their financials, they have a female attorney that represents the Wat (this we don’t have in Laos) the lady that did the draperies for the Wat negotiated the cost directly with Ajahn Jinda (this is never heard of in Laos). Wat in the US have their networking where they help each other financially where is needed most, just like Wat Lao Buddhavong of VA help build one of the new Wat in Charlotte (correct me if I’m wrong here.)
As for the local monk, he has been doing this for a while, therefore has gone to India, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, this trip in May is to Cambodia, and during the past Pee Mai, people can donate directly to help refurbish the Wat in Cambodia, or donate to the Wat, I think the fund is very specific as most Wat have a little donation box that said ‘help pay utilities or help build Wat’, it’s your intention of what you want your donated money to go to. He also gives lectures at Universities when invited and that is how he was able to attract American monks, he has 2 there. If spreading his Buddhist region and helping rebuild temples where it’s needed most, and helping the poor is self serving, then yes I agree that he is, but again all monks are like that, all religious leaders want greater things, whether bigger Wat, more followers, or reaching out to more people, at the end, I think it’s all self serving.
He wanted to build the Wat and add a worship hall but the city would not allow, he wanted to build the Tadth along the Wat property but that was also turn down, who is handling all of this, most people don’t want to and don’t care to when it comes to money (when there is very little to none that is) and do you expect the monk to turn the other way when there is problem arising at the Wat, I don’t know if I would respect that. We can’t expect them to bury their nose in the Bai Larn and chanting their Pali medications all the time, they have to think of the progress of the Wat and the future of Buddhism in the US as well. It’s nice to think that there would and should be someone that want to step up and said “I’ll do this”, as you know yourself Darly that not that many people will help out (charity wise) even when you ask, it’s not their cause. I think the monks feel the same way, if they don’t handle and manage the problems of the Wat, who will? They are the ones that teach us that “It is a natural human weakness to depend on others rather than to rely on oneself,” which should not be just a preaching, but should be able to do it themselves IMHO. It’s nice to think that Lao people living in the US want to help build the Wat, help build the Lao community, but the faith of Lao people living in the US have also changed, many Lao people living in the US are now Christian, the Lao community is also shifting, this I have no problem, it is their right of what they want to do. A good Buddhist can embrace other regions, but it just other religions that can’t accept and embrace Buddhism.
Another thing that we have to consider is that the Lao community in the US is not like the Lao community in Laos. in Laos, the people live closer together, within walking distance to the Wat. In the US, most Lao people live very far away from the Wat, take me for instance, I live about 1-2 hours away from the nearest Wat in my State. Obviously, there is no simple solution here, it is not black and white. Monk gate, I know.
I went to the temple on Saturday for Visakha Puja (Vesak).
We chant and meditate then We walked around the sim 3 times. There were 17 people attending this event. (all 17 of us- 8 mae Khao, 8 elderly male and me. Everyone were over 50).
The sim was littered with food, beer and water bottles from the new year few weeks ago. The ground was littered with broken bottle and light bulbs. I counted 3 Mae Khao who got their feet cut by this broken glass. I though monk suppose to sweep the ground around the temple everyday.
Dallas, if you think of the Wat as your place of worship, wouldn’t you and shouldn’t you help? It’s the thought of who should do this that delays the progress, why not set a good example, what would it take to get people together and help clean the Wat, or maybe the thought that “it’s not my job, it’s the monk’s job” that’s preventing the progress.
I used to live in Philadelphia and amazed of how the Thais built their Wat (also a place where many Lao people worship) in no time, and when there is Boun, the Thai doctors or what ever would help clean up afterward, did they once think that the monks should do it, if they did, then it would not have been as prosperous of a Wat as it is IMHO. So, what is stopping us from thinking this way?
Ginger, it wasn’t much but I did clean the area where there were broken glass so the monks and the people would not step on it as they walk around the sim. I did what I could since it was 9:30pm and very dark out.
My point was, the abbot of the temple need to provide leadership to the novice and other monks there. The temple is a place for the people but it is also a home to the monks. Shouldn’t the monk clean up there own home?
I went to the temple in Cherry Valley, IL 2 years ago. I was putting the food away in the fridge at the monk resident (not the Sala). The fridge was so dirty, the sink was full of dirty dishes. In the meantime, I hear Thai lakorn blasting in the background. Few months later a monk from Laos was asked to leave because he was stealing other monks properties. That monk is now living in Kansas last I heard.
Many Laos temples I think lack good leadership. Temple in VA where you live is fortunate to have good leadership and many good people going there.
Good posts, good discussion!
To lower the risks, how should a Lao Buddhist temple be run?
Lao Buddhist, at the moment I can’t help but to feel that you are doing some sort of research (the style of your question is very much like one Lao magazine,) I’ve noticed this the last time I answered your questions, you appear to be very knowledgeable…let me ask you back, how do you think a Lao Buddhist temple should be run?
Dallas, monks are like normal people (in fact, they are normal people) that carry their habits with them into their livelihood as monks, and when people see something like that, it’s appropriate to speak up, the Abbot is the one that should speak up but sometimes you have one that doesn’t have good leadership skill.
I don’t live in VA, I actually live about 6 hours away from there but I feel like Wat Lao Buddhavong of VA is also my Wat that I go there to worship at least once a year (there are bad cases there also but I choose not to write.) The Abbot is highly respected but he is getting old and I heard voices of concern from the people when I was there last summer that if anything were to happen to him, they’re not sure of the future of the Wat because people go there because of him, I think in most Wat, most people might think that the Wat is what drawn the people, but I believed that good religious leader (the Abbot) and the monks also drawn people, just like the monks at your local Wat, their actions and how they carry themselves is a turn off to you and I’m sure to others as well. As for the dirty dishes, if any of us are there and see it, it is okay to wash the dishes…there is no rule that normal people can’t do the Wat dishes, I often wash the dishes at Wat, I believed it’s a common cutesy for Lao people to help out. There is an old saying that if you do the dishes at the Wat, your next life will be Nang Far or Taevarda (don’t hold my word for it, that’s what I’ve heard); and when people see me do dishes at Wat, they’d call me Nang Far (kind of funny I thought.)
continues with how it is done now but be more transparent.
Committee should run the temple and head monk (Abbot) take care of the monks. Committee appoint an Abbott, sponsorship of monks, do finance and planning. Everything is put to a vote with Abbot also a member.
I still think monks should not be paid. They should not be given any money. But if an individual want to buy a monk a plane ticket to go to Laos, that is different.
I am extremely impress by these Western monks. Check these two temples out Abhayagiri and BSWA. They are of Forest Tradition.
Perhaps there should be a Lao Forest Tradition. Maybe affiliate with them.
I have many discussion with a friend on mine. (The one that making fun of my Tai Tai accent). He is total against the idea that I am proposing. I think my idea is a little extreme but I think it is doable.
I believe Lao temple is USA is trying to mimic what we do back in Laos. It is not the same. Something work and something doesn’t. We don’t live in a village anymore. We need to adapt our religion with this style of living . Everything does not needed to be done at the temple such as party, concert, parade, or any huge sport events. So we don’t need a huge place for a temple. This way we save money on property tax, utility, insurance, etc…
Rather having to drive 1-2 hours to a temple, I would rather we have a small building in town with just few acre of lands. There should be big enough where 2-4 monks reside and with room for laypeople can go meditate and listen to the Dhamma talk and do offering. I would like to have these monks or volunteer teach Lao language and Buddhism to kids on weekend. I will even pay for the class. If we need to have a concert, sports and other huge activities there are place to rent to host these events.
Ginger, a Wat is just window dressing. I also think good leadership (good monk) is what drawn the people in.
Someday if I see you and Darly in person we can discuss this in length. I hate typing.
Dallas, sounds good to me.
Dallas, how about me?
Ginger, I will answer your question soon and I don’t mean “when ever”
Is (Lao) Buddhism loosing to materialism (in the US)?
I don’t think it is the problem of anyone not wanting to take charge but more like not being allowed to take the responsibility. A good leader doesn’t take care of everything but rather knowing how to delegate tasks. Many people will not dare ask how things are run and not voice their opinion until we have a big problem and sometimes to the point where we take each other to court. In this case this is how things are done and to say otherwise might be seen as stepping on someone’s authority or not “trusting” the monk’s leadership. Of course you can offer help and communicate things in ways that doesn’t seem as threatening to the establishment.
My point is that you can’t do it all by yourself and you can’t know all the laws and regulations. You have to find specialists to help. I have no doubt that if the monk would hold a meeting and say let’s set up some sort of administration body to help run the temple, some people will step up to the tasks and responsibility. I am here and not there so if you didn’t tell me this is what he has done and no one care to help, then it’s a different story.
Helping with a religious cause is different than helping with a “charity” and people have different level of devotion. Most people I know would give all they can to a temple or a church before they give to the Hearts and Lungs Association or any other charitable organizations.
I like to have more faith in people and don’t want to think that most of us are just sitting around, waiting for someone to do something first and be that passive. I think most of the time we fear that if we try to suggest change or give comment or suggestions, then we will be seen as not supportive of the establishment and we fear of being seen as the bad guy, rather than being lazy and not wanting to pitch in.
You can adapt to the changing time and make progress without losing too much identity and traditions. Look at the Jewish community or Muslim community in the US.
Lao Buddhism in the US is not the only one facing with declining memberships. Other religions are facing the same problem, fighting to keep a religion alive and thriving. I don’t understand by what you meant with embracing Buddhism. That is a different subject. There can only be one religion for most people and it is one of those life and death subject that people wage wars for as long as we can remember. For Lao people, Buddhism was imported from India to replaced the older religions.
I don’t know the number of Lao Christians in the US but I don’t think it is that significant. Most Lao people I know are Buddhists so number is not an issue here. But what is more important is the number of Lao Buddhists in the US and the fact of how many of them are active Buddhists. Having 100% Khon Lao in the US saying that they are Buddhists and only 10% of them are practicing Buddhism and active members of the temples can make or break the religion. 90% of Lao people I know are the types that would show up to all events for the food and fun. They would go to a temple as well as a church when there is a gathering. The rest they go to the casinos on the weekend or hosting their own rin phai.
As for the younger people, it is more fun to hang out on myspace and youtube rather than attending church service or sermons at the temple. So there are many factors involve in building and sustaining a religious institution. If you go to a church or a temple and find the place not appealing with how things are like the broken bottles at the temple Dallas went to, that could be a bad thing and some people might not go back. First impression is almost “everything” whether we like to believe or not. If you see something like that then you could be wondering what else are underneath the carpet.
I think distance doesn’t make much difference if you are a devoted person. I’ve been to Laos and let me tell you that having a temple 15 meters from your house doesn’t mean a thing. In Pakse non of my cousins would do the Morning Alms Giving not even once a week. Only my Grand-Mama would get up at 4:20 in the morning so she can cook rice and get ready for the Morning Alms Giving. The monks do their morning round at the door steps so distance doesn’t make these cousins get out of bed to take part in the rituals, not even once a month from what I have been told. The younger people I noticed only went to the temple when there is a Boun and most will go at night time for the music and dancing and not sit around listening to the sermons after the Alms Giving or helping with the dishes.
Same goes with the relatives near the Lao/Thai border. None of them got up to cook rice and do the Morning Alms Giving and you can say the same for most of their neighbors. The only ones that are active are grandparents and some little ones. In Vientiane it is the same with all my relatives on my mother’s side and their neighbors. They are busy making money to take time for a religion.
>>>“I don’t think it is the problem of anyone not wanting to take charge but more like not being allowed to take the responsibility.”<<<
Darly, this is not the case, if I want to take charge and said I’ll hire an attorney and ask for the building permit again, I’ll take out a personal loan as a donation of $250,000 (or have cash), no religious leader would turn this down. If I said, I want to paint the Wat (which I’m thinking about, but would take me over a week to get it done, I give up the idea before even starting, distance might be the issue here also) and get people to help me, he will not turn me down, this I know for a fact. But it’s getting me or anyone to commit to doing this. No religious leader would turn down help of improving the Wat or Church; it is the lack of people that wants to help that is the problem. What is stopping others to step forward, and what is stopping me? I can’t answer that, perhaps we are passive people.
As for the Boun or Tuk Badth at Wat, not that many people would show up, I’d say less than 25% of the Lao people. Buddhist can embrace other religion because Buddhism is not exactly a religion but more of a philosophy and way of life, any religion that share the philosophy of doing good deeds are acceptable in our eyes. Yes, for Christian way of thinking, there is only one religion, only one god, anything else is…
We can talk about this forever because each of us has different experiences, different perception, and different involvement with the Wat. I’d show up to most events because I have special interest in learning and studying about the religion, and I don’t know if that’s good or bad.
If that is the case. Then it’s hopeless for any religion. I agree with you that Buddhism is not a religion and I have always thought of it as a way of life, a philosophical practice. Some people have said that Buddhists are atheists and Buddhism is not a religion because there is no god concept. Most of the major world religions have accepted one divine being or one god as a concept.
I was not speaking about a specific religion. Only extremists can’t accept other religions. You might be different than some Lao Buddhists who think and say Lao Christians are traitors to their own kind. Some Lao people I know would say Lao Christians are khon leum sart and leum sart sana. To them it is only Buddhism and anything else then you are not khon lao anymore.
To me, you don’t have to subscribe to a religion to be a good person or do good deeds. I have many friends that are better people in terms of their words and actions than some that are avid church goer or temple goer.
What is stopping anyone from doing anything? Perhaps it is resistance like the book The Wart of Art mentioned. To expect one person to take out a loan to build a temple or a church is too much of a burden. Of course no one will turn down such an offer. But to wait for someone rich or willing to take such a risk to take the burden, then you can wait forever.
Paint the temple first, then the rest can come later. But what would be good is when the head monk would ask people to paint the temple, and if no one would do it, then you can do it all on your own and prove your point. Perhaps someone seeing you doing such a thing and setting good example, then they will join you. Just like you told Dallas to set a good example in picking up the broken bottles and not waiting for the monks to do so.
My point is having a good organization and assigning tasks might make a difference for such an institution. Being a good leader also mean knowing how to ask for help when you can’t do it all. Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear when talking about taking responsibility for the temple. I am not talking about doing dishes or painting the temple, or cutting the grass. I am talking about forming an administrative body to take charge and run the temple and not a one woman or one man show by coming up with large sum of money to run the whole show or own the temple. We have seen how that went with someone having his own temple.
One monk or one priest shouldn’t be responsible for the entire community.
Darly, Lao Christians are not traitors, most still practice Buddhism, I have a friend that pray to Buddhism in Lao language, then to god in English, the traitors are those that look down on Lao Buddhist, no one should have the right to look down on other people. The Christian that I’m taking about are the local Christians that don’t know a lot about other religion, very narrowed in their way of thinking and looked down on other religions.
The sad part about the Wat in NC is that there are many Wat and only have 2 to 4 monks each and when people have to Tum Boun at their house, then it’s inviting monks from 2 to 3 Wat just to get the right number of monks.
>>What is stopping anyone from doing anything? Perhaps it is resistance like the book The War of Art mentioned.<<
I thought of the same thing, I got the book last week and start reading on it already, and might be the reason as to why I want to do something about the Wat. The last time I was there for mother’s day, I asked my other sisters and they’re very iffy about it, I can’t do it alone, if I can get someone to help me then, I’ll ask my dad to ask Ajarhn, since he will be away next month, might be good timing to get things done while he is away. He’d still have a Lao and American monks thereto be in charged, I believed he is taking one American monk with him. My younger sister wants to do some drapes or curtains. Of course this might not materials to anything.
Ginger,
People that want to look down to other people will find reasons to justify their behaviors and actions based on just about anything. There are more than religion that is diving Lao people and it’s rooted in the past. Some people just like to doo thook other people for no particular reason. Even in my own family in Laos, some relatives look down on one another if others are poor and pretend they are not related. If you are educated and might not be as poor as the others, then they can tolerate your existence as long as you are useful to them.
You need to get to a good part of the book. Like I said sometimes it’s your own friends and family members that will slow you down as stated in the book. My advice is to find someone like you to help you along. If not you can go on your own and see if others will help.
Yes, you can do it alone. Don’t think like that for this task. It will just take longer to go alone. But it can be done. It just take one stroke at a time and one wall at a time. I would help you if I was living in your area. We could go there each weekend and paint. But since I am here I can only encourage you to start something that you wanted to do. Even if it takes you an entire year to complete the task alone by going there once or twice a month, you should not let that deter you from starting the project.
Fight that resistance and you’ll be free.
Sort of stick my foot in my mouth there, I see you’re applying the Art of Persuasion, is that in the book also.
Hi Ginger,
No, not at all. That is how I think, two hands are better than one but you can still get things done with one hand. The book is just a bonus.
Ginger, here is my answer:
Lao Buddhist temple/organization should be run like other non-profit organizations by having board of directors and executive officers. The most important part is the involvement of the Lao people in the community. Many Lao organizations in my State looked good only at the beginning. There is a Lao saying “Houa xang, harng noo” (elephant’s head, mice’s tail). It seemed like the people just went with the crowd without their own strong will. When a dictatorship (or hindrance) appears in a Lao organization most of the Lao people just shy away which is, in some cases, what the dictator wants.
Based on my own experience, the majority of the Lao people who are 50 or older go to a temple just to worship.
You’re right about I’m doing “some sort of research”. I would like to know how the Lao people think about the future of our temples in the US and how many people are working hard try to solve the problems. I believe the future of most of the Lao Buddhist temples in the US is in jeopardy. The bigger they are, the harder and louder they would fall. I’m wondering if the LBMA is trying to save Lao Buddhist Temples in the US.
Based on my own experience, the majority of the Lao people who are 50 or older go to a temple just to worship.
LBMA is Lao Buddhist Monks Association in the United States of America, not London Bicycle Messenger Association J
A Cup of Tea
Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.
Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.
The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”
“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”
Dalai Lama on CNN
Larry King asked the Dalai Lama if he ever ate after midday.
Lao Buddhist,
Isn’t it how Buddhist temple organized and operate right now? I always thought that how it is done.
My only experience with the temple was during my college year in Iowa. I use to help out with the temple help setting up events, cleaning, painting and fixing stuff around the temple. I don’t see many young people help out at all. I’ve do see many old people there. So I got to know many regular that goes there and came to know how the temple was run….just like how you have said. I thought that is how every temple is like.
All the older monks at my temple does not speak English. I think having monk speaking and teaching Dhamma in English is very helpful in bringing younger people in.
What I notice from many temple I’ve been to…..there is no attempt to bring young people to become involve other than the girls in tradition clothing and doing traditional dance during certain festival. They fair better than the guys. I’ve only seen them during the party. When I say involve, I am not just talking about helping around the temple. I am talking about come listen to the Dhamma and practice the Dhamma. I’ve also wonder what state of condition Watlao in USA will be like 20 years from now.
Dallas, There are many unanswered questions about Lao Buddhist monks and temples. Yours are just a few of them.
Theoretically Lao Buddhist temples are organized and run like a typical non-profit organization in the US. But realistically they might be only a very small percentage of them. When the people call “Wat Syma”, Wat Ajarn A, Wat Ajarn B, most likely Syma, Ajarn A or Ajarn B are the most powerful persons in the temples, not the board of directors. You may ask the leaders of your local temples about the rights and responsibilities of members of the board and executive officers and their regular meetings.
In China, a Buddhist monk owns a $125,000 car.
Lao Buddhist, throwing information around without informing as to why or how could be very misleading to readers, as for your statement of “In China, a Buddhist monk owns a $125,000 car.” I assumed you are referring to a gift that was given to him, an article here: “So, should the abbot of the Shaolin Temple accept a luxury sports car valued at $125,000 dollars? The local government gave him the car as a reward for boosting tourism.” From reading your statement, most readers would think that monks are so materialistic nowadays that they buy and own luxury vehicles.
As of right now, most Lao Buddhist Wat is run according to what you’ve mentioned, and that is “Lao Buddhist temple/organization should be run like other non-profit organizations by having board of directors and executive officers.” Just because Syma is more of a dictator doesn’t mean that ALL are like that. We have about 2 Wat in our area that are run by board of directors and executive officers, and one of the problems that I see with this is the lack of communication where the fund is being used unwisely by certain individual member, and might not have agreed or known by all members, then people start to question the validity of the transaction, and this might shy Lao people away from that Wat because of rumors that that member A stole the money, from not seeing it myself, I can’t say if it’s a legitimate transaction or not, and I think if the situation is more transparent to the people, even an unwise transaction can be overlooked and forgiving, but most Lao people don’t like to be told that they’ve made an unwise decision, most like to be praised, so the individual become very offensive, and this become even more suspicious.
I agreed that the majority of the Lao people who are 50 or older go to a temple just to worship, but young people also attend, they might have to drive their parents or grandparents to Wat or some would bring their children to Wat, my sisters and I are under 50 and we attend the Wat with my dad. I do have to admit that we attend the Wat more frequent since my mom passed away, and most monks are very open to the new medium of communication of the Internet, and when they knew that I want to blog and learn more about Buddhism, the monk in Greensboro gave me tons of books and told me that if I have any question, I can call him, or any Ajahn at his Wat or any Wat (and this apply to any of you out there as well,) and the Lao elders are very helpful also. Sometimes reaching out to younger generation doesn’t have to be via attending Wat only, even if they are not familiar with the Wat, but doesn’t mean that they are ignorance about the practice, most people like to be knowledgeable, and I believed that younger people will attend when they have the need to, whether having to Tum Boun for their passed loved ones, or Buddhist house blessing.
If your concern is for the younger such as Lao youtube or myspace generation, maybe reaching out through this medium of communication is the way to go, but making a general statement of “Lao monks having cash account of $xxx,xxx.00” without having proof or backup is an accusation, and if it is a fact, then not all monks have that, and a statement such as yours will help jeopardize the future of Lao Buddhist Wat even more. It’s a good idea to backup your statement, if you have none, then it becomes an accusation. Sometimes when we do research, we have our mindset of what it should be and only try to find information to prove our point, but a good research should have all side of the story, even at the end when our point is proven wrong.
It is not just rumor that money has been taken. There are procedures for accountability and many people are turned away by one blocked path and give up. The directors are responsible for accounting and if they don’t, there are laws that will be enforced in this case. There are also laws that allow for penalty for “wasting assets” as was the $132,000 at Charlotte. Of course adding to the problem is the level of incompetence you encounter when dealing with the judicial system on all levels. It seems most of the people I’ve come in contact with scored in the 70% range which is “passing” but only surviving in the cutthroat world of law and public. The monks are merely the “bookkeeper” most of the time and report to the directors the health of the organization.
I’ve heard that he sold one of his houses to hire an attorney just to fight this court battle, I’m wondering how well represented is the Wat? Sometimes money makes all the difference.
Ginger, Buddha said don’t believe anything or anyone blindly.
Monks are not employed. If he owns a $125,000 car, one should think about how he got it. Make a wise guess.
As you have said, I’m doing research but might be less you have done.
Mr.John wrote: It is not just rumor that money has been taken.
I’m aware of Syma situation that it is not a rumor. The rumor that I’m talking about in my previous comment is just a general statement of the organization of Wat, sometimes I wish that Wat book would be transparent enough for people to view when ask (and not creative accounting either), I think people would have more faith and trust in the system.
Lao Buddhist, I’m not criticizing you, but I don’t like to see misleading or one sided story.
Ginger, my style of discussion is different. If I think a person intentionally or unintentionally gives wrong or unclear information, I would ask the person to clarify before making my conclusion or even attacking the person. I’m not in a hurry. I feel sorry for people who don’t have much time to ask but have more time to criticize his/her counterpart. I feel sorry for the persons who like to rush to a conclusion.
Is a Buddhist monk who buys a $100,000 car more materialistic than a monk who owns one in another way?
I want to attack the issues, not the person(s) I have a discussion with. I want to know what other people think as much as or more than what I believe, that was why I raised some questions in my previous posts. I also want to know their reasons.
Having a board of directors and executive officers is good. It’s better if they are all alive and (very) active. I asked Dallas to ask the leaders in his local temples. I’m looking for a Lao Buddhist temple that has a long history of being administrated properly.
I’m sorry if my previous post(s) would create harms to anyone or anything.
Please continue to improve our temples and our community. We need people who use logical judgment like you.
Lao Buddhist, I don’t have time to take the scenic route in answering your question, it was more of a one way discussion, you asking questions and us answering you, and you weren’t very clear of your intention, and I’m not a mind reader. If it’s the issue that you want to discuss, we can do that, but first let me go for a scenic walk to cool down and give other people a chance to answer your question.
“throwing information around without informing as to why or how could be very misleading to readers, as for your statement of “In China, a Buddhist monk owns a $125,000 car.” I assumed you are referring to a gift that was given to him, an article here: “So, should the abbot of the Shaolin Temple accept a luxury sports car valued at $125,000 dollars? The local government gave him the car as a reward for boosting tourism.” From reading your statement, most readers would think that monks are so materialistic nowadays that they buy and own luxury vehicles”